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 I dont understand the Compressor Prototype
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| Author | Topic: I dont understand the Compressor Prototype | |
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patrik Member |
posted 15 May 2011 20:59
 
 I'm sorry, the compressor from the prototypes is simply working different than i would expect it to work. My expectations are: If an incoming signal (the sidechain signal) exceeds the threshold, the compressor takes !Attack seconds to attenuate it as the number in the Ratio field defines. Independently one can adjust the gain after this process.
Could somebody try to explain me this? I really have read the Informations on that prototype multiple times, but no success. [This message has been edited by patrik (edited 15 May 2011).] IP: Logged | |
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patrik Member |
posted 15 May 2011 21:07
Is it possible that this maybe is mixed up? "Ratio parameter: This is the ratio of the Input amplitude to the output amplitude. For compression, it should be greater than 1. For expansion, it should be less than 1. (This only affects the Input when the SideChain crosses the Threshold)." IP: Logged | |
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BenPhenix Member |
posted 16 May 2011 07:56
You may be interested in David McClain's writings and compression prototypes. (I miss David's contributions very much). http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Share/DiscussPrecisionCompressor-Limiter There are additional examples here: http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Share/Sounds#Compressors_and_Limiters IP: Logged | |
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patrik Member |
posted 16 May 2011 10:09
Thanks! Yes this is great stuff, but i would really often need just a "bread and butter" compressor. It seems the works of david are mostly very sophisticated and reasonably DSP hungry. IP: Logged | |
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patrik Member |
posted 17 May 2011 13:08
Am i totally wrong? What about the normal Kyma compressor? IP: Logged | |
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SSC Administrator |
posted 17 May 2011 13:14
quote: That's because there is a gain built into the Kyma compressor. In other words, the "peaks" are attenuated and then the entire signal is amplified. The end result is that the ratio between the peak amplitudes and the other amplitudes is "compressed". This lets you increase the overall amplitude without the peaks clipping. IP: Logged | |
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patrik Member |
posted 17 May 2011 13:50
Thanks! so this compressor attenuates a signal above threshold AND boosts signals below threshold? Is there a possibility to deactivate this, or is there a very plain compressor out there?(Davids stuff is, as i said ,really amazing but just seems to be rather specialized and not as versatile as a normal compressor.) Pure Ducking is not possible with this device right? Of course i have helped myself with different workarounds so far, but this would just be something very handy to have. IP: Logged | |
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SSC Administrator |
posted 17 May 2011 14:38
The compressor in Kyma compresses the signal in the same way an ordinary compressor does, but it also automatically applies a gain to the result (not just the part of the signal below the threshold). This allows you to adjust the compression ratio and the threshold without needing to have to adjust a "makeup gain" control to keep the same output level. (You can adjust the Gain value in the Compressor Sound to "undo" this effect, if you like.) As for ducking, have you tried the Ducking prototype in the Compression/Expansion category of the System Prototypes or the ducking examples in Compression.kym in the Effects Processing folder in the Kyma Sound Library? IP: Logged | |
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Bill Meadows Member |
posted 30 May 2011 08:34
This has been an endless frustration to me, too. I would prefer the compressor to work like every hardware compressor I have - i.e.: don't change the signal level until the threshold is exceeded. IP: Logged | |
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patrik Member |
posted 28 May 2012 05:15
Hello again. Bill said what i thought. You said that i could use the Gain parameter to get rid of this behavior. At what value do i get a normal compressor? At 0, i dont get any signal it seems, as soon as i go up, this effect comes into play, right? I have the impression kyma is made as system that encourages experimenting and wants the user to have maximum freedom. The compressor, as it is right now reminds me of those compressors one sometimes finds in hardware, where you only have a threshold parameter, and maybe a button that reads "fast attack".. sure, it's not that bad. But i really can't understand why we don't have a usual compressor in this system. I can't work with this, sorry. for example, how should i use this compressor to emphasize the transients/ the attack phase? usually if i take a normal compressor, give it an attack of 20 ms, a reasonable threshold and maximum ratio, feed it a snare eg. i get a really harsh short signal, and i am able to adjust the harshness via attack, ratio and threshold. Can anybody explain me how to do this in kyma? I mean i bought an FMR rnc(really nice compressor) for about 200 dollars and it's just a million times more useful (simply more versatile!) than the one in kyma. but of course the drawback is i can't insert it many times at any point within the kyma signalpath... please please please help me.. i don't understand why this has to be so frustrating, it's such a fundamental thing. [This message has been edited by patrik (edited 28 May 2012).] IP: Logged | |
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ChristianSchloesser Member |
posted 28 May 2012 10:25
There a trillion different compressors in the world. And Every company has a different philosophy. All Units work entirely different a Teletronix, a Neve , a dBx , an Urei , an Aphex or a rNC Compressor... it depends on the design and the philosophy. Many plugins follow the same philosophy ... but hardware? There is a nice thing about Kyma.... if you don t like something what it is already there. Just think what you really need and build it yourself... IP: Logged | |
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patrik Member |
posted 28 May 2012 11:24
Sure, you are right, i hope it doesn't seem that i demand that the kyma compressor works in a distinct way that i just saw somewhere. it's just that it seems to me, that the autogain implementation makes it less versatile and more convenient for the standard use of a compressor. it seems directly the opposite of the whole philosophy behind kyma. I mean it's a really nice feature sometimes, but being able to switch it off would make ducking compression and the use i descibed above possible, right now it's not that simple. please add a little toggle box for disabling this sometimes great feature SSC! And yes, i already built something like that, but it would be neat to have an encapsulated prototype. Also, building a good compressor for everyday use is not a that trivial task in my opinion. Again..something very fundamental.. i am not asking for something completely esoteric here do I? IP: Logged | |
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SSC Administrator |
posted 28 May 2012 16:52
(The reason for the automatic make-up gain is to improve the signal-to-noise ratio of the compressed result.) IP: Logged |
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