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Author Topic:   An idea - Patch Mutator
cristian_vogel
Member
posted 07 January 2007 07:51         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know if any of you Kyma people also have Clavia G2 - There's an interesting feature on the last version of the patch editing software - they call it a Patch Mutator. Basically , it is a graphical interface for making restricted random variations of all the parameters in a patch ( not the connections between the modules) .

You can read about it here http://www.clavia.se/downloads/manuals/nord%20modular%20G2/Nord%20Modular%20G2%20Mutator%20Manual%20(eng).pdf

without all the snapshot and fancy graphic interface, could it be possible to build some kind of parameter mutator in Kyma too? this would be exciting - so the dice roll can be constrained in its randomness...

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RXB
Member
posted 07 January 2007 09:33         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, we all have one, along with our fully loaded Capybaras, Continuums, Lemurs, and Apogee converters. I am sure we all also have with several brand-new 3 Ghz Intel Macs with multiple 30" displays, mansions on each continent, Lamborghinis, and several yachts....

Apologies for the sarcasm, but sometimes these comments seem to assume that, merely because one owns a Kyma system, one must be a multi-millionnaire. Some of us can barely afford a basic system, with all the limitations that that entails. For that reason, a few of the remarks here, such as, "Why should you want to use the Capybara for its converters; let it do what it's supposed to do?", or, "Why not focus new controller development on the Lemur?" can become mildly irritating, over time.

Anyway, I am sure that someone here can answer your question.

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cristian_vogel
Member
posted 07 January 2007 10:20         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wasn't making any assumptions about anybody, or anybody's worth.

I was making a suggestion for a design idea.

I think it was unpleasant of you to flame this thread - your post has come across very bitter sounding.


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HectorBenard
Member
posted 07 January 2007 10:38         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think Cristian is assuming that everybody has a Clavia G2, he's only asking if perhaps any of us has one or is familiar with the feature he describes. And if this was implemented in Kyma like he suggests, everybody who uses Kyma would benefit from it, not just the people with other expensive toys.

I'm a starving musician myself, and I still have to pay a big part of the student loan I got to buy my capy a couple of years ago. I'm far from being able to afford a Lemur, but I would be very happy to see SSC develop integration of the Lemur with Kyma, as I think that this is the way that controllers will go in the near future (OSC and touch-sensitive screens) and the possibilities are very exciting. Camille has already done a lot in this direction by developing the OSCulator, and he doesn't even own a Lemur! Just because we can't afford certain things that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be implemented or that we can't learn from them! Nobody is assuming anything here about what other people have, everybody is just trying to learn from each other and to make music with Kyma and whatever tools we have available, and I think that whatever development comes from this exchange of ideas is always a positive thing. Besides, the more Kyma develops the less likely we'll be to need other toys such as the G2.

Cheers,

Hector

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tuscland
Member
posted 07 January 2007 13:47         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi RXB,

Yes not all of us have the opportunity to have all the gear we would like, but I think no one here will send arrogant messages. For example, I would love to own a Lemur and I hardly make a living of my music.

Just think about this: Cristian is a well known performer, he surely do not need and has no time to expose his gear and be arrogant, he's just sharing ideas on the edge of technology.

I feel concerned about this thread because I think Kyma's forum is unique. I love the ideas shared in this forum and its friendly atmosphere. I am registrered since 2 years, and never had any problem. We have a very high level of competence here ; take a look at Ableton Live's forums and you'll understand what I mean and what a boring forum is.


Best Regards,
Camille

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JackRosete
Member
posted 07 January 2007 14:47         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is a great forum

The one thing that's missing is a little more sharing of Sounds. We shouldn't leave all the development work to SSC

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JackRosete
Member
posted 07 January 2007 16:44         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Randomish.kym

 
Cristian, about your first post, the idea of constraining randomness is one that I may seek to implement within a new Sound I'm building. Therefore, I have made a start with something that could serve as an entry point.

In the following Sound, a !Fader determines the value of a !GeneratedEvent, until a !Dice push injects a new random value (within constrained parameters) to set the !GeneratedEvent (!Max and !Min set the random boundaries). Then, when the !Fader is moved again, the !Fader controls the !GeneratedEvent, until the !Dice is pushed again (and so forth).

As I said, this is a simple starting point, and there are some questions I would need to figure out to make this a more global example. One thing I'd like to know is how to determine the range of a !Fader from within the Sound Editor, as a Smalltalk/Capytalk script? And also, how can I use the value created by the !Dice push, to set the !Fader value as well as the !GeneratedEvent value?

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photonal
Member
posted 07 January 2007 17:00         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'm embarresed to admit it but I would classify myself as a 'Tweaker' rather than 'Builder/Innovator' of sounds - and so such a function would be useful. Some Soft-synths allow you to press the dice too and change the parameters by a certain given amount which is great way for creating new sounds from a good starting preset. I like the function in reaktor whereby you can morph between presets to create new sounds.

@cristian_vogel : Perhaps your idea could be implemented in the VCS - whereby there would be two snapshot lists and a slider allowing for morphing between the parameter values in each snapshot and also a numerical input by the dice to indicate by what degree the parameters get randomised.

@RXB : Perhaps things will change for you in the future, whereby you'll be able to afford the equipment you want. Speaking as someone who has been unemployed for four years, I understand what you feel - making money from music is not easy but I think it's great to have people on this forum who have managed it - perhaps we can learn from them and then order our mansions and yachts

@HectorBenard : I think Camille is a she

@Camille : I am right, right?

@JackRosete : As an official Tweaker, yes you're right. And I don't post any of my tweaks 'cos I think they are too basic - usually I've combined sounds into one another rather than creating totally new sounds like the real Kyma Power Users do.

[This message has been edited by photonal (edited 07 January 2007).]

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tuscland
Member
posted 07 January 2007 18:23         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey photonal,

Nope Hector was right, I am a 'he' ;-)

Cheers!
Cam

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cristian_vogel
Member
posted 08 January 2007 04:32         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@ JackRosette: your example is a simple way of restricting the range of a random field. This is a good start, and a nice starting point for anyone wanting to build fixed-field algorithmic generators into a sound. But I agree with Photonal in that this type of parameter warping would be most effective if done by the VCS, like a loaded dice roll.

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HectorBenard
Member
posted 08 January 2007 12:16         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by photonal:

@cristian_vogel : Perhaps your idea could be implemented in the VCS - whereby there would be two snapshot lists and a slider allowing for morphing between the parameter values in each snapshot and also a numerical input by the dice to indicate by what degree the parameters get randomised.

This sounds a lot like what the InterpolatePresets sound does. Are you guys familiar with that sound and PresetSpace? It might be useful for what you're trying to do, as they at least allow you to interpolate between presets right from the VCS and explore the possibilities within the parameters of your sound.

The thing about implementing Cristian's idea on the VCS (as a modification to it) is that then it would have to be done by SSC. This could be interesting, especially as it would then be automatically available for all your sounds. But I think there are many ways to get that kind of behavior with a little capytalk in the sound editor that would also be very useful, like Jack suggests.

I'm in the middle of writing a chamber ensemble piece (with a fast approaching deadline), so I haven't been spending much time with Kyma lately. But as soon as I have a chance I'll give it a shot and see if I can come up with something interesting along the lines of what Jack has started (though by then you guys will have probably already come up with something awesome).

Best,

Hector

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SSC
Administrator
posted 08 January 2007 13:28         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the meantime, RandomGlobalController (in the Prototypes) might do *some* of what you are looking for. It has constraints on the min/max of the random deviation and the speed at which new random values are generated. Replace the BPM expression with a Gate if you would like it to be triggerable.

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photonal
Member
posted 08 January 2007 15:20         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Cam : Ooops!

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