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Author Topic:   top 24 ?
cristian_vogel
Member
posted 08 January 2007 14:48         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

top24.kym

 
Here is a sound that says 'Hot Variables cannot perform the operation Top 24'

errr...

I was trying to experimenting with interpolating arrays ... I know it was a long shot, but this error was a bit freaky so i thought I'd post it in Support.

[This message has been edited by cristian_vogel (edited 08 January 2007).]

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cristian_vogel
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posted 08 January 2007 15:13         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
basically , my headache is this

I want to interpolate between sequencer sounds , just the control data, not the audio path of each sequencer.

So I would like to be able to have one sample being controlled by an single interpolation of 2 or more different sequencer sounds. I have have tried a straightforward use of the Interpolate sound, but of course the Kyma signal flow goes the other way when you use MIDIVoice or AnalogSequencer sound, so I can't figure out how to interp between different sequencer data, without having to duplicate the sounds that the sequencer is triggering.


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SSC
Administrator
posted 08 January 2007 17:04         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would something like this work? The idea is to replace your arrays of controllers with arrays of *interpolating pairs* of controllers.

For example, in the Pitches field, instead of having:
!P0 !P1 !P2...

you could substitute an expression that morphs from A to B with:

(((1 - !Morph) * !A_P0) + ( !Morph * !B_P0)) (((1 - !Morph) * !A_P1) + ( !Morph * !B_P1))

An alternative way to do express the interpolation is:

(!Morph * (!B_P0 - !A_P0) + !A_P0)


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cristian_vogel
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posted 09 January 2007 03:19         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ok, yes, I guess this would work, but then I really aim to interpolate between maybe 3 or 4 sequencer arrays - I want to make a square with the preset rhythm patterns in the corners, and one control point , interpolating between them.

So with the solution above, I would be having to generate quite a lot of faders and code - isn't there a neater way to do it with smalltalk perhaps?

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cristian_vogel
Member
posted 09 January 2007 07:55         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

PatternInterp.kym

 
I went through the expressions library. and found Array of Arrays - So I have managed to get this to work, but it will only function with an at: lookup , not an into: lookup - the compiler says 'cannot understand 24bitInteger' - I have attached a sound to demonstrate this. Any thoughts?

EDIT:

doh!!! The into: lookup has a different syntax of course, it needs input to output values... will try again

[This message has been edited by cristian_vogel (edited 09 January 2007).]


EDIT:

I got the Top 24 error again!!

this time, I have tried

(!Pattern into: #(
{ 0 @ {!Step of: #(1 0 1 0 )} }
{ 1 @ {!Step of: #(0 0 1 0 )} }
{ 2 @ {!Step of: #(0 1 0 1 )} }
{ 3 @ {!Step of: #(0 0 0 1 )} }
) )


but it gives me the Top24 error....

now i'm stuck...

[This message has been edited by cristian_vogel (edited 09 January 2007).]

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JackRosete
Member
posted 09 January 2007 08:36         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cristian, that idea of a square with presets in each corner to be interpolated between is superb! I would like to join you in getting this to work in Kyma. I am also building a very large sequencer instrument at the moment (it seems you are on a similar venture), perhaps we can share some ideas etc.

My instrument is called Probability Beats, because as well as switching toggles in a matrix to trigger each hit, each toggle has a slider that determines the probability of execution when its turn comes around. Therefore, each basic sequencer has the ability to 'improvise'. For example, if a toggle is switched on and its probability is set to 16 (the maximum), then it will always trigger when its turn comes around, if set to 8 then it will only trigger half the times, if set to 1 it will trigger 1 in 16 times etc. Therefore, programmed beats take on infinite variations.

I also added a function that allows each sequencer element to change direction on the fly, left to right, right to left, both etc. In tandem with the above idea, the beat patterns are constantly evolving, even with a very simple (fixed) 16-step program.

Now I would like to add a powerful preset structure that will allow for expressive Live performance, and also algorithms that will allow Probability Beats to improvise by itself, working towards denser or sparser textures at the touch of a button etc.

I am also implementing: fills, looping functions, bouncing-ball gestures, poly-rhythms, interpolated changes in note duration (for example to allow a single sequencer element to interpolate between a simple 16th note shuffle rhythm, and a simple 8th note shuffle rhythm over the course of two bars, creating overlapping rhythmic textures etc.).

Well as I said, since it seems we share a common goal, perhaps we could bounce a few ideas about on this forum, and I'm sure it will lead to a more interesting end!

All the best,

Jack

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JackRosete
Member
posted 09 January 2007 08:41         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
About your post to do with into: arrays, I ran into a similar problem a few months ago:
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=displayprivate&number=1&topic=000733

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cristian_vogel
Member
posted 09 January 2007 09:55         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

NeverEngine_Hat+Bank_Fader.kym

 
Ah Jack! Like the sound of your Probability Beats - sounds a lot more complex than what I am going for , it seems to contain within it, variable probability rhythmic mutations, which is really interesting, and also along the lines of the 'Patch Mutator' in that notorious thread I started a few days ago.

I aknowledge that you are further along the Kyma path to enlightenment than I am, so I know you can be much more ambitious with your code, I would like to see how you scripted your way around interpolating array data...

Here is a section from my sequencer, thought you might like the circular 4 source MUX fader... It also features the bank fader technology we designed a while ago...

[This message has been edited by cristian_vogel (edited 09 January 2007).]

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SSC
Administrator
posted 09 January 2007 14:36         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"I really aim to interpolate between maybe 3 or 4 sequencer arrays - I want to make a square with the preset rhythm patterns in the corners, and one control point , interpolating between them."

For that, I would recommend InterpolatePresets or PresetSpace. Create a single AnalogSequencer and play it; make snapshots of the settings at the four corners of your Square. Then drag a PresetSpace from the Prototypes into your signal flow graph and drop it just to the right of the AnalogSequencer. The new control parameters will be the !X and !Y coordinants of your position in the "timbre square".

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cristian_vogel
Member
posted 09 January 2007 16:17         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I really like the Interpolate Presets and Preset Space sound, but I thought you lose control over all realtime paremeters throughout the whole sound. I will try what you suggest tomorrow, putting some PresetSpace soundss in the middle of a larger signalflow, see if it can work for me

[This message has been edited by cristian_vogel (edited 09 January 2007).]

[This message has been edited by cristian_vogel (edited 09 January 2007).]

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cristian_vogel
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posted 13 January 2007 06:03         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
back to this thread...


... I have tried interpolate presets , inside a larger sound . I tried 2 of them, controlling the preset of 2 seperate AnalogSequencer sounds. This works, and is interesting. But, in taking control of the parameters of one sequencer ( which inevitably contains a !BPM hot value for example ) , you lock out control of the BPM. The BPM can no longer be changed for the whole sound.

Is there a way of makng interpolate presets ignore this paramater when it does the interpolating?


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cristian_vogel
Member
posted 13 January 2007 06:27         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

InterpolatingDrumMachine.kym

 
you are not going to believe this Jack.

I figured out the solution to my problem above.

If there is a parameter you don't want to interpolate through the interpolate presets Sound, its as simple as setting that hotValue's fader/button/widget to 'Affected by Presets - No' in the VCS of the sound that will be interpolated, as you are setting its presets - then it doesn't get controlled by the Interpolate Presets sound..

brilliant


[This message has been edited by cristian_vogel (edited 13 January 2007).]

[This message has been edited by cristian_vogel (edited 13 January 2007).]

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SSC
Administrator
posted 13 January 2007 06:55         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to supply a couple more details on how one can do this trick:

• Play the Sound so you get its VCS
• Ctrl+Click on the controller widget in the VCS (anywhere in the controller is fine)
• Select Affected by presets>No in the hierarchical menu

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cristian_vogel
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posted 13 January 2007 11:33         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah , thankyou SSC , plain english - that is a calmer description.

You know, I'm excited about this discovery, because it opens up a whole load of interesting directions for putting limits on chance, something that my professor at Uni taught me many years ago. He called it 'fixed-field improvisation' - i.e. making free choices that are within pre-composed boundaries. These choices could be interpreted by a performer as harmony, rhythm, texture, dyamics, duration - In Kyma, these generated choices could be applied on a myriad of different levels.

I also feel that a dice roll , or mutator , triggered from conditionals within the sound structure itself rather than manually via VCS, is now a possibility. This is something I have been searching for in my own generative music research for some time - a way for a composition to mutate its structural attributes over time, whilst maintaining possibilities of interaction from a performer.

I'll see if i can create something beautiful out of all this ...


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