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 Kyma Forum
 Kyma Support
 TimingClock strangeness
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| Author | Topic: TimingClock strangeness |
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BobTheDog Member |
posted 08 May 2009 14:32
 
Hi Guys, I have searched around in the forum and am pretty sure I have this right in my head but it isn't working. I have Ableton Live sending midi clock to the pacarana, I can see the little blue m on the DSP Status signifying midi arriving when Live is playing. I do not see any timecode info changes in the top right of the DSP Status window and !TimingClock is not being updated. Anyone any ideas? Thanks Andy IP: Logged |
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BobTheDog Member |
posted 08 May 2009 14:47
Well I got the TimeCode changing via MTC messages from Logic but still no luck with MidiClock from Logic as well as Live. IP: Logged |
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SSC Administrator |
posted 08 May 2009 17:38
Just to confirm, do you have Kyma version X.62? That is the one where timing clock was added for the Pacarana. IP: Logged |
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BobTheDog Member |
posted 08 May 2009 18:38
Hi, Thanks for the info. No I am using X60 due to a firmware issue I had with the newer version. Cheers Andy IP: Logged |
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SSC Administrator |
posted 08 May 2009 18:41
That has been fixed in X.62! So you are free to update away! IP: Logged |
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BobTheDog Member |
posted 09 May 2009 00:17
Hi, Installed update and now I can get the BPM correctly using !TimingClock I still cannot get the TimeCode value to update in the DSP Window or sync the timeline to TimeCode. Is MIDI Clock supported for this or do we have to use MIDI Timecode? Thanks Andy IP: Logged |
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SSC Administrator |
posted 09 May 2009 09:32
You can select MIDITimeCode from the menu at the upper left of the Timeline (where it says Free Running, by default). IP: Logged |
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BobTheDog Member |
posted 09 May 2009 11:07
Yep done that no joy. So Midiclock is supported then for timecodes? I don't see the time-code changing in the DSP Window or in the timeline unless I use MTC then everything works as expected. IP: Logged |
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SSC Administrator |
posted 09 May 2009 14:03
Right, you can use MIDITimeCode to sync the Timeline to time code. The timing clock, you can use in CapyTalk expressions to sync them to MIDI "quarter note clock" which is separate from MIDI Time Code. IP: Logged |
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BobTheDog Member |
posted 09 May 2009 14:14
Ah, thats a shame. Ableton Live doesn't support running as a MTC master and I use Live for lots of stuff. Is it possible in Kyma to affect the timecode directly? If so I could maybe use the midiclock messages to control the timeline. Cheers Andy IP: Logged |
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Luddy Member |
posted 09 May 2009 19:34
I sometimes send audio time code (LTC) from a recorder -- would work fine from Live as well -- to the LTC input on the capybara, in order to make the recorder a timecode master and the capy a slave. The only trick is to generate the audio timecode as a wave or aiff file. I have a command-line tool that does this, there are probably other tools that can generate such timecode running around as well. I posted my command line tool over at groups.yahoo.com/hd24 (the HD24 group at yahoo) in the files section; you can download it from there if you're interested. It is Mac OS X 10.5 Intel binary only -- no PPC, not universal. <sorry.> If you used this technique in live, you would have to let the arrangement run continuously with this timecode audio track playing without interruption. Maybe that's the same for sending MIDI clock from Live too, not sure. [[ Doh -- just realized that you wrote "pacarena" and not "capybara". none of what I wrote will work for the pacarena as it doesn't have an LTC input... ]] -Luddy [This message has been edited by Luddy (edited 09 May 2009).] IP: Logged |
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bar|none Member |
posted 23 March 2010 23:22
I need to bump this, I've been struggling all night to make Ableton Live and Kyma sync. Two approaches I tried. #1 Use a timeline and drag "New MIDI Timing clock output" sound into timeline. Sync Ableton to the Konnekt 24D midi port. This changes the BPM in Live constantly (in small increments) and I have no control over the transport in Live which is really hard to use. If Kyma also send SPP then would this work? #2 Use a MTC generator clock. Using Backline by Audiofile Engineering. Sync Ableton to MTC. Sync Kyma to MTC. MTC clock sent to Konnekt 24D that Kyma is listening to and also to IAC port Live is listening to. Live tracks fine and locator snaps to correct position. Kyma does nothing. It doesn't respond. Should I be seeing the "m" light flash for midi input? If I snoop the midi connection to Pacarana I see timecode. 19:49:29.349 To Paca(rana) MTC Quarter Frame 2 Time Code is selected in Timeline "Timecode: Midi or SMTPE" [This message has been edited by bar|none (edited 24 March 2010).] IP: Logged |
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SSC Administrator |
posted 24 March 2010 08:37
Two things to check: Is Timeline in play mode (has space bar been tapped)? Is there a timecode offset set in Kyma (e.g. is it one hour offset from the timecode you are sending it)? IP: Logged |
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ChristianSchloesser Member |
posted 24 March 2010 08:40
remember that your kyma>preferences>performance FPS setting matches the external timecode... also press play on Timeline before starting the master MTC. Works here with Digital Performer 7 but only basic sync from start.. no FFW, Rewind Loop etc...via MIDI. anyway i recognized that MTC tunneled over OSC via PacaMIDI or OSCulator does NOT WORK at all! all the best IP: Logged |
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bar|none Member |
posted 24 March 2010 12:40
Thanks for the responses. So verified FPS Performance setting 30fps Thing is, when I press play in timeline either with MTC clock running or not, The play cursor lurches forward a couple of frames and stops. Starting the clock does nothing. Ableton responds though no problem. I'm sending midi to the Konnekt 24D midi port, I'm not sending it to PacaMidi or over OSC. Is it possible that Konnekt 24D is stripping it? Midi notes are being received without issue. This is my standard midi port I send to. Is there a way to monitor what Kyma is getting? [This message has been edited by bar|none (edited 24 March 2010).] IP: Logged |
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SSC Administrator |
posted 24 March 2010 16:45
You can monitor received time code in the upper right corner of the DSP Status window. As far as we know, the Konnekt does not filter any MIDI messages. We were able to use MTC over OSC using OSCulator and are currently working with Delora to get it to work with PacaMidi. The next update to Kyma will include support for the absolute time code message (this was inadvertently left out) which should allow the positioning that Christian mentioned. IP: Logged |
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bar|none Member |
posted 24 March 2010 18:48
Ok, making some progress. I'll write this up for wiki if I am successful. So MTC to Konnekt 24D midi port does not work. I wonder if reinstalling the Konnekt 24D drivers and looking at midi settings in its control panel might allow me to turn something on? It'd be nice to be able to use this port. Looking at the upper right hand corner of DSP status window was helpful to see if anything being received. I installed Osculator and was able to send MTC to it and that does work. This is great. I'm definitely having issues syncing to Ableton though. Getting the absolute MTC locators working would be hugely helpful so I'm glad you are working on that. NOTE: I've never had to use MTC before, it's kind of a pain especially since I am not using video and it requires an external MTC master clock. Backline works but I would really like to find an MTC master that can use locators and better support for scrubbing timeline etc. If anyone has suggestions, I'm all ears. I guess running Logic just to be an MTC master clock is kinda silly. Are you guys ever going to add plain old Midi Clock? Right now, the clock seems like it's syncing but the audio is way out. I recording some click track samples to attempt to line stuff up.
[This message has been edited by bar|none (edited 24 March 2010).] IP: Logged |
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ChristianSchloesser Member |
posted 24 March 2010 19:07
to bar none... I tested the Konnekt 24D too and via MIDI MTC it worked fine... i use DP 7 as master MTC via an AMT8 to the konnekt 24... but i had some issues with the new TC drivers as i remember... i installed the old ones on my macbook to setup the 24D to use with the pacarana... all the best IP: Logged |
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bar|none Member |
posted 24 March 2010 22:28
Ok, I have it working and am happily messing up Live audio from Live. Sweet! One thing that would be supremely helpful is another offset for latency. For example being able to sync in front of or behind MTC clock by x millisecs. That way I can just line stuff up in the timeline but deal with clock latencies and audio latencies between Kyma and Live for instance when using live audio. Setting track delays in Live does not help with monitoring. Having transport control via absolute MTC locators will make everything a lot easier to deal with too. Very cool though. Thx, [This message has been edited by bar|none (edited 24 March 2010).] IP: Logged |
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Douglas Kraul Member |
posted 25 March 2010 10:00
First thanks to Symbolic Sound and everyone who has help identify the MTC compatibility issue with PacaMidi. We have found the cause and have prepared a fix. This will be part of an upcoming maintenance release. If you wish to use PacaMidi in a MTC setup, and do not want to wait for the actual release, please email support@delora.com to request a beta copy with the fix. all the best, Doug Douglas Kraul [This message has been edited by Douglas Kraul (edited 25 March 2010).] IP: Logged |
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bar|none Member |
posted 25 March 2010 10:05
Alright, I have a confession to make. I just realized that I wasn't using the Konnekt 24D port which would require a physical midi cable, I was using the vM2 virtual paca(rana) port which has this limitation that Douglas is fixing. I was so used to having this wonderful virtual midi port that I forgot the port in question was being provided by vM2 and not the Konnekt 24D. It all makes sense now. I'll definitely write up a wiki page after this though to make it worth the time to walk through since it's fairly confusing to setup especially with a non-MTC master DAW like Live. IP: Logged |
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bar|none Member |
posted 25 March 2010 10:52
Douglas' fix works, so fantastic work there and I guess fix is on the way. Thanks everyone. IP: Logged |
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bar|none Member |
posted 25 March 2010 20:41
Ok, I added steps to get this working to Tips and Tricks thread. IP: Logged |
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Douglas Kraul Member |
posted 29 March 2010 21:29
The MTC problem that we fixed for PacaMidi has also been fixed in vM2 2.0 (vM2 also includes a virtual port for the Paca(rana)). We will release updates to both programs in the near future. However if you currently need the MTC compatibility we'd be glad to provide a beta version of PacaMidi and/or vM2. Just contact us at support@delora.com. All the best, Doug IP: Logged |
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Douglas Kraul Member |
posted 15 April 2010 09:03
We just released PacaMidi 1.0.1 and vM2 2.0.1. These updates include the fix for the MTC issue that has been discussed here. Thanks, Doug Douglas Kraul [This message has been edited by Douglas Kraul (edited 15 April 2010).] IP: Logged |
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