posted 22 October 2009 00:14            

A sample player/looper that allows one to set loop start/stop (or as the whole file loaded) and each time (or a set amount of times/loops) the file loops (repeats), the entire loop is incremented by one 'frame', the 'frame' being some programmable fraction of a second or seconds. So do one (or 'n'#) loop, move one fraction of a second forward, do next loop, repeat, ad infinitum or until last possible loop that can be set within present file (loop end=file end so stop increment) is reached. Option of crossfade beginning/end of loop and/or de-clicking desirable but not a deal breaker.

The important part is the 'some fraction of a second' as incrementing via MIDI (which I can already do) is not fine resolution enough for the result I am after (thinking in vein of Jan Jelinek 'loop finding records').

[This message has been edited by LoopyC (edited 22 October 2009).]

posted 22 October 2009 11:57            

I have no doubt it's possible in Kyma, I just don't know what level of skill it would take to implement (CapyTalk is a ways off for me). I would even be willing to pay someone to make it but am also wanting to to learn, been combing the book which has some tantalizing near-references but not close enough for my meager understanding to proceed (yet).

I think Jan Jelinek is actually doing something simpler (ASR mod wheel?) but I like proceeding with what I think a technique is and being wrong about it enough to make it my own experiment to some extent I did a quick search on his technique and came up with my own quote! concerning Expert Sleeper's 'Crossfade Loop Synth' lol. Unfortunately MIDI made the scanning far too course in that case for the result I was looking for (a much more 'It's Gonna Rain'-type of scan).

Have you made/done loop scanning at that level Cristian (fractions of seconds by loop counter) or is there another perspective already in the library I might be interested in?

Thanks for your interest and reply ;-)

posted 22 October 2009 15:46            

Initial experiments could by done with the Sample module. Here you can move the start and end points of the loop while the sound file is playing. This is very limited in as much as you have to remain in the loop and it is hard to know where you are at any given time.

You could make two identical sample player but make this one have the file "full ramp" as it's sample. It's output could then be your reference and with feedback modules it could be used to make calculations to control itself (and the other sample module with the sound in).

You may find this limiting after a while, so the next thing to try is the waveshaper module.

You can find one using cntl B and finding TimbreWaveshaper in the prototypes.

This is a powerful module and does so much more than it's name implies. The shaping function can be a big sound file limited only by the ram in your Capy/Paca and the input is the pointer to the position in ram that is being outputed. -1 is the start of the sound file and +1 is the end.

So if you put a ramp in the input you have a sample player. The angle of the ramp is the rate you play through the sample. If you make the ramp jump to a new position the sample jumps to that new position (at sample rate). This all requires a lot of experimenting and it may be hard to generate the ramps you need to get it to work the way you want, but you can do some interesting stuff.

Hope this helps

posted 22 October 2009 16:30            

I had thought about the ramp method (as opposed to a counter) as that is how I have done it MIDI which is of course...errr well 'course', but taken in the context of Kyma, these other modules, and your suggestions I will optimistically check it out, thanks for your input.

posted 22 October 2009 17:58            

Don't forget that a counter in the digital domain is a ramp and with 24 bits you have 16777216 steps. A bit less course than MIDI.

You will let us see your efforts when you get going?

good luck

BTW are you on Capy or Paca?

posted 23 October 2009 14:18            

For example, using the "Count" sound that comes with the Sample prototype, you can see that it is 88200 samples in length. If a version of that sample was to increase by one sample on each play then it would take 88200 x 2 seconds to reach the end, so therefore that's how long we would want our wavetable to get from the start point to its end point.

Would this work?

posted 24 October 2009 14:55            

Pete, I will certainly keep the thread up-to-date as to my progress, the discreet-built 'prototype' I mention above was so much fun I have been temporarily distracted exploring the processing possibilities (albeit in a limited form)

I have got this page copied onto my desktop so next Kyma session I will explore all the suggestions, the help/suggestions/feedback is much appreciated, thanks all.

posted 24 October 2009 17:07            

LoopyC.kym

It's a Sample where the Start parameter is:

!FrameDur s tick sampleAndHold: !StartLoop

and the End parameter is:

(!FrameDur s tick sampleAndHold: !StartLoop) + !LoopLen

To get from a frameDur in seconds to a proportion of the total sample duration, it uses:

((!FrameDur s tick) triggerEvery: !NbrLoops) countTriggers - 1 * (!FrameDur s / 'SwS - 062 Tidal.aif' sampleFileDuration)

The Sample is multiplied by a FunctionGenerator on a Gaussian envelope triggered at the FrameDur rate to do the windowing or enveloping.

For small frameDurs (~ 0.02 s) and NbrLoops > 1, you get a classic granular time stretch kind of effect. For larger FrameDurs it can repeat, for example, each beat in the loop.

posted 24 October 2009 21:56            

It does seem to be on the right track but I don't know if it is inner relatedness of all the parameters but I can't seem to get the same subtle, slow effect despite different source samples. Here is my 'prototype' (a screenshot) and also there are some examples as posted to my blog of this 'on the fly' prototype. As they are varied sources and take a while to unfold (thus some are very long), skip through the tracks in the player for best example (102209 005 is probably a good one).

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/loopyc/Forum%20Bucket/LoopScannerPrototype.png

http://loopyc.com/?p=906

[This message has been edited by LoopyC (edited 24 October 2009).]

posted 25 October 2009 06:14            

listening to your example I think I see what you are doing and it really is simple and just as simple to implement.

Get just one module, the "Sample".
Call up your sound file in the Sample field.
Set Frequency to default.
Set Gate to 1. set scale to 1.
Set Start to 0 and End to 1.
Set LoopStart to !Trigger ramp: !Speed s.
Set LoopEnd to (!Trigger ramp: !Speed s) + !LoopLen.
Set both AttachTime and ReleaseTime to the crossfade time you want or put !XFade ms in
both, for live control.
Tick both SetLoop and LoopFade

When you start the sound you will need to adjust the range of the Speed control in the VCS using the pad lock, to something like 0 to 500 as this is the number of seconds it takes to move through the file.

The LoopLen value will represent a fraction of the whole file hence if the file is 60 sec long then 0.1 will be a 6 sec loop.

Once set up press the trigger button to start again, and don't forget to take a snapshot or you will loose your settings next time you start up.

Hope this makes sence

Pete

posted 25 October 2009 07:17            

listening to your example I think I see what you are doing and it really is simple and just as simple to implement.

Get just one module, the "Sample".
Call up your sound file in the Sample field.
Set Frequency to default.
Set Gate to 1. set scale to 1.
Set Start to 0 and End to 1.
Set LoopStart to !Trigger ramp: !Speed s.
Set LoopEnd to (!Trigger ramp: !Speed s) + !LoopLen.
Set both AttachTime and ReleaseTime to the crossfade time you want or put !XFade ms in
both, for live control.
Tick both SetLoop and LoopFade

When you start the sound you will need to adjust the range of the Speed control in the VCS using the pad lock, to something like 0 to 500 as this is the number of seconds it takes to move through the file.

The LoopLen value will represent a fraction of the whole file hence if the file is 60 sec long then 0.1 will be a 6 sec loop.

Once set up press the trigger button to start again, and don't forget to take a snapshot or you will loose your settings next time you start up.

Hope this makes sence

Pete