Kyma Forum
  Confabulation
  Speakers for live performing?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Speakers for live performing?
SSC
Administrator
posted 29 July 2003 13:42         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do any of you have experiences or recommendations with respect to speakers for a live peformance 5.1 surround setup? Are you using studio monitors? How large an area can studio monitors fill comfortably? Any preferences regarding powered/passive speakers?


IP: Logged

mathis
Member
posted 29 July 2003 14:24         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
can you be more specific which room sizes you think of? how many people you wanna adress?
you want a diffuse surround field like in cinema or point sources?
what spls to you want to be able to get?

stereo: two problems.
5.1: ....


IP: Logged

SSC
Administrator
posted 29 July 2003 16:30         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What I was imagining was room-filling, audience-immersing sound, but with the possibility of localizable and/or moving sound sources. But I didn't have a specific situation in mind. I was more curious to hear what people's experiences have been with different room sizes, different speakers, different speaker arrangements.

IP: Logged

garth paine
Member
posted 30 July 2003 06:39         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a set of Tannoy i8's with TX1 processors and a sub - they work well in live performance I think. I have used Tannoy T10's for larger spaces and they sound fab in a larger space (ie. Sonic residues festival concerts).

Although you have seen me use Genelecs for the concert in Leicester, I strongly beleive that the use of studio speakers for public concert/address systems where the listener is not in a 'near field' position is a bad move. In the UK at least, people love doing surround concerts (usually 8+ channels) using Genelec speakers, but I think this leaves holes in the image and the speakers are not designed to 'project' in the same way that PA speakers are - hourses for courses so to speak.

As proof of my commitment to this approach, I have studio monitiors and PA speakers, and have tried using one or the other for each task, and feel the I8's don't work at all in the studio, but project really well in public spaces with good width and detail and yet controlled dispersion, on the other hand the DynAudio BM15A's I use in the studio do not work for me in public spaces - the dispersion angles are too restricted (to suit near field monitoring) and do not retain detail over longer listening distances as they do not 'project' as the Tannoys do.

Of course loud-speakers are a subjective choice - I personally perfer Tannoy, Turbosound, Meyer, and some of the new Italian speakers such as DB.

For what it is worth - hope that helps a little

Garth

IP: Logged

sm
Member
posted 30 July 2003 08:03         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my xperience is that 5.1 + studio monitors only work for "livingroom" sized venues. everything bigger definitely needs more speakers with more power to achieve an immersive effect without holes in the spatial resolution. its also nice to have more than one subwoofer.

IP: Logged

eddym
Member
posted 30 July 2003 10:56         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi:

I have not done live surround myself, but was reminded about a local sound sculpture/concert done by noted educator/enginer/musician Dave Moulton (Golden Ears originator) here in Massachusetts last year. The room could accomodate 40-60 people, if I remember correctly, and the sound was great from everywhere in the room. Dave designs his own wide dispersion and full-range speakers, which he believes work better. Great guy as well. Here is his website if you choose to contact him directly:
http://www.moultonlabs.com/index.htm

Rgds,

Eddy Martinez
Holos Media LLC

IP: Logged

robertjarvis
Member
posted 30 July 2003 13:43         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm afraid I'm one of those Genelec users (at the moment). I'm working with four (or five) genelec 1091s and the 7060 sub. Of course they're small but for 4mx4m spaces the sound to my ears is pretty good, especially if hung from the ceiling; and they appear to be pretty indestructible (metal grills - so audience proof!). For larger rooms I think I would move towards a good quality PA system, such as Bose, or use more speakers. As I am generally working in smaller spaces the above set up is fine, especially if I can take on board the speakers and room's strengths and weaknesses in my actual composition process.

IP: Logged

more
Member
posted 31 July 2003 10:36         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'm currently using (5) HHB circle 8 active nearfields w/ an alesis s1 sub for small gallery settings. but i feel that their limits are being pushed even in this setting. Especially later in the evening opening night when you have to compete with the mildly intoxicated socialite hob nobbing

IP: Logged

capy66n320user
Member
posted 01 August 2003 14:21         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Multiple listener presentation of surround sound with all participants experiencing the mix in the sweet-spot is obtainable with the Lake Technology TheaterPhone HSM6240 licensed to Dolby Labs marketed under the trademark Dolby Headphone.
http://www.dolby.com/dolbyheadphone/
http://www.fostex.com/index2.asp?file=products/lake/hsm6240

Ten headphones can be driven by a Fostex PH-100 distrbution amplifier. The PH-100 also has a cascade input / output feature for daisy chaining multiple units as necessary.
http://www.fostex.com/index2.asp?file=products/accessories/headphones/ph100

[This message has been edited by capy66n320user (edited 01 August 2003).]

IP: Logged

robertjarvis
Member
posted 04 August 2003 13:51         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This TheaterPhone sounds interesting. Has anyone played with it? If so, how realistic is it?

Robert

IP: Logged

capy66n320user
Member
posted 04 August 2003 18:45         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Robert,

I concur with the eloquent statements made from the "Reviews of Dolby Headphone Technology" found at the bottom of the web page: http://www.dolby.com/dolbyheadphone/

You may also post your question to the Headwize chat forum: http://www.headwize.com

Additional info/reviews/manuals are available at the Lake Technology Limited web site: http://www.laketechnology.com/driver.asp?page=main/home

Please note that, for what its worth, Dolby has issued the following statement at the end of the HSM6240_ug_lor.pdf document:

"While Dolby Headphone is an advanced and sophisticated technology of remarkable performance, it is not a substitute for speaker-based reproduction where critical assessment of the program is required. Suitability for these or any other purposes are neither expressed nor implied."

Also, not a practical answer for everyone, but you can audtion the TheaterPhone in Nashville, TN at: http://macmidimusic.com/prod.itml/icOid/1719

IP: Logged

yasuski
Member
posted 11 August 2003 08:34         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have tested 5 near-field speakers with 1 sub woofer for my live performance.
The speakers are Fostex NF-1A. The dimension of the gig space
was about 30m * 40m with 40 audience.
I felt the speakers sounded good and they had enough power
for this situation.
Althouh the acoustic of place was too much reflections.
So, it was very difficult to tune the sound. I hope I would
test my audio system with good acoustics.

The best speakers I have ever use was Meyer's UPM-1P.
But it is very expensive. I did not find the good SR speakers
for the small sized gigs. So, I tried to use the near-field
monitors for my live performance.

IP: Logged

KX
Member
posted 20 August 2003 04:17         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm new to Kyma (a few weeks) and I bought the Kyma system
for ONE main project, wich was spreading the sound into 64 or more speakers. My "absolute" idea, 8 years ago, was to take a sound and split "EVERY" single harmonic accross their own loudspeaker. Then I was warned that buying an infinite amount of speakers would be impossible !!... so I just bought as many monitors/amplifiers my budget could allow me (while still thinking of getting a Kyma system) and did some tests.

From what I "learned", proximity is the way to get to the point.
Anyone can remember the doc Brown helmet in the movie "Back to the fututre"? Imagine wearing a headphone helmet that would holds 8 hi-performance speaker while sitting on a sub woofer...

Assuming this sentence is true: the mind has to ajust itself to the outside world the same way the outside world has to ajust to the mind,
being isolated (in such an helmet) might not be a problem....

I have never experienced a real communication when more than 5 or 6
(maximum) humans were involved...so what music should I compose?

BTW thanks to everybody at SS for everything (hardware, software, humanware!..)

P.S. If I don't spend too much time on my Capy, I'll learn English..!

IP: Logged

garth paine
Member
posted 13 September 2003 21:30         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
XK wrote "was to take a sound and split "EVERY" single harmonic accross their own loudspeaker. Then I was warned that buying an infinite amount of speakers would be impossible !!"

Tempo Reale have been doing some stuff like this for Berio works - check out the European Journal Organised Sound 8.2 (due out in a month), which has an article about such an installation - they achieve very interesting textual changes by moving frequency source within fixed images, and also moving the image of only some frequency bands - most interesting

IP: Logged

KX
Member
posted 17 September 2003 20:38         Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's exactly what I have in mind.
I achieved very satisfying "preliminary" result
in a 8 speaker system. Preliminary because
I use to process compostions by Ligeti or Xenakis
and a few very basic compos of myself.

Can you forward me a specific link to the European Journal
Organised Sound?
Thanks

p.s. For anyone of you who knows Steve Reich's "8 lines",
try processing it with subwoofer-ize sound;
set "inharm" pretty high as well as "lo track" and "ratio".
Then send the processed sound to the rear speakers and a reverberized
processed wet mix in the front speakers. Add the unprocessed sound to the front.
Now lower the "inharm" VCS fader while fading out the unprocessed sound;
it 's like the sound dissolved...
I just spent the last hour dissolving and resolving 8 lines!!



IP: Logged

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply

Contact Us | Symbolic Sound Home

This forum is provided solely for the support and edification of the customers of Symbolic Sound Corporation.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.45c