posted 29 July 2007 09:21            

Is it a daisychain for other firewire peripherals? or is it so a second computer can be connected to the hardware?

Oh yeah, I see near the top of this page it says in blue "Forum Password" Is this an active feature? does anyone have a Forum Password because I did not require one to post here.

posted 29 July 2007 09:41            

I think just about everybody here uses the flame with their capybara. The second firewire port is indeed a daisychain for other firewire equipment, including things like the continuum fingerboard that comunicate with the capybara through the flame. You can connect a second computer as well, but only one computer can talk to the capybara at a time. If you try to run kyma from the second computer it will reinitialize the dsp and take over control of the capybara from the first computer. At least that's what I seem to remember, but I'm sure that Kurt or Carla can give you a more thorough explanation.

Cheers,

posted 29 July 2007 11:22            

Did you get any documentation on the flame apart from the pink bit of paper and the order receipt?

posted 29 July 2007 11:53            

H

posted 30 July 2007 20:42            

I use mostly a motormix that I picked up on ebay about a year and a half ago. It is unfortunate that there isn't an option to replace the motormix yet, in the sense of a similar motorized fader box that communicates both ways with kyma. It is nice to have new options like the wiimote, but for many things I still think that faders and knobs are the best option. I also use my wacom tablet quite a bit. Recently I picked up a jazzmutant lemur, and I'm really happy with it. It opens up a whole new world of possibilities for controlling kyma. Sometimes I also use a behringer FCB 1010 pedal, mostly when I have my hands busy playing an acoustic instrument and need to control kyma with my feet.

Cheers,

Hector

posted 31 July 2007 20:57            

Yep, I sure am a Raptor rehabilitator and do alot of research on Birds of prey in their natural environment. We have some very unusual owl species here in West Australia. One being the Barking Owl (Ninox connivens) Yes! it barks...it screams... it utters all sorts of noises that could be taken for sounds of the underworld and supernatural. Once I have some good quality sounds collected I will be using them extensively but it is not easy to get Barking Owls to bark and scream when even the best hidden microphone methods are used. They see ultraviolet light and the yellow iris in their eye acts as a retina polarization that also enables them to see infra red. I am dying to to record using a DSD recorder that then converts to wave file.

posted 03 August 2007 08:27            

The wiimote can be used with Kyma? I thought it was a video game console controller. Wireless to the sensor strip and then a cable to the Wii console. Please enlighten me if it can be used with Kyma and how.

posted 03 August 2007 11:13            

Thanks for sharing your stories mate! It must have been awful to have your capybara kidnapped by your ex! But I'm glad you got it back.

That barking owl sounds really interesting. I'd love to hear those sounds you describe when you get around to recording them and using them in your work. And I'll have to remember to check out those birds if I ever make it to Australia to visit my sister.

The JL Cooper controllers look very nice, but they're bloody expensive! And unfortunately if they don't communicate both ways with Kyma there is no point in the faders being motorized. You can always use something in between like max and do the presets there, but it's much nicer to be able to do it just in Kyma. It'd be great if some of those newer motorized controllers were supported in Kyma to replace the motormix. Have you checked out the lemur? www.jazzmutant.com

About the wiimote, it can be used to control Kyma through the osculator, a program that Camille Troillard made to communicate with Kyma through osc. There's been quite a few posts in this forum about it. Check out the older topics in the support forum, and also in the sound exchange forum. You can also go directly to the osculator website: www.osculator.net There's also some nice video examples that Carla and Kurt made. You can see them at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESDzYYl0__s Have fun!

Cheers,

posted 03 August 2007 21:52            

You say that MAX can be used as a inbetween for the JL Cooper for presets. So MAX works with JL Cooper motorized faders? I did not know this. I simply use one of my synthesizers knobs to control the Capy however I would like to have some something more dedicated. Max would work here you think?

Where in Australia is your sister? I am on the west coast of Australia, a little city named Perth. I am affiliated with Eagles Heritage Wildlife Centre www.eaglesheritage.com.au If your sister is in eastern Australia, I can get you in contact with wildlife people there to see and HEAR some of this amazing wildlife.

posted 04 August 2007 04:10            

Does motormix only communicates through Midi direct to the Capybara?
The CM Motormix...does it come with a Kyma driver or is it because that the Kyma virtual control surface sends its change data to the motormix which receives Midi controllers?

posted 05 August 2007 18:45            

I was borrowing a motormix from a friend before I got my own, but one day it just suddenly died on me. After a while it started working again for a couple of days and then stopped working for good. I got mine from eBay because SSC wasn't selling them anymore, as it had been discontinued. It worked ok at first, but then it also started acting up just like the one form my friend (and I've heard other people have had very similar issues). I haven't had any problems with it recently, but I only turn it on when I really need to use it, and there is always the fear that it might die during or just before a performance. And because it is discontinued it would be a real problem, as you can't just get a new one from a store. It's still relatively easy to get one on eBay, and I've even though of getting a spare one in case of an emergency. But in any case, I think that in time it will be really important to have another option that works with Kyma, and that is both reliable and easily available.

Any of those motorized fader boxes will be able to send midi to any program, including Kyma (at least as long as they have a physical midi output that you can connect to the Capybara). But the problem comes with the program sending midi back to the fader box so that it can update the fader positions when you make a change on the screen, or change presets. And that's the whole point of having motorized faders! But Kyma communicates only with the motormix in this way. There are no extra drivers or anything, Kyma just has built in support for the motormix. So unless similar support was implemented in Kyma for some of those other fader boxes, like the Mackey or the JL Cooper, there is no point in the faders being motorized, as when you change presets in Kyma the physical faders will not reflect the new fader position on the VCS, and if you then tried to change values by moving the physical faders, the ones on the VCS would immediately jump to the position of the physical faders and so on.

I don't use MAX much myself, but I think I remember seeing somebody use the Behringer motorized fader box with Kyma, using MAX in between for presets and everything that would require bi-directional communication. I guess that would be the easiest way to go at this point if you want to use motorized faders other than the motormix. I'm sure some of the MAX users in this forum would be able to tell you a lot more about this than I can.

Yes, my sister is in eastern Australia. Actually I think she's about as far east as you can go, in Byron Bay! I don't really have any immediate plans to go see her, or money to do so, but I'd definitely like to make the trip as soon as I get the chance, or when I manage to find myself a good work-related excuse. But I'll definitely let you know if I go there, and I'd love to check out the wildlife. Thanks!

Best,

posted 05 August 2007 22:36            

I really don't want to end up with something that has to be repaired most of the time. The idea of me getting something in the way of a controller would be to also use with Logic Pro7 and Protools, which both support motorized faders. If the motorized faders don't work with Kyma...oh well.

Can I ask you a question about this issue with the motormix? When it went down...did the LCD and all the LED's went out at the same time? or was it more like the LCD stayed on but the faders didn't work and then the leds' go down and then the LCD works again etc etc?

I am confused to what it says on the Cm Labs website: it mentions "Get your classic MotorMix rebuilt by the factory. Make it last even longer!"
Then under the menu of Products there is a MotorMix2...it seems to be that the first motormix was discontinued and there is a motormix2 now. I dunno what is going on.

I have never seen MAX and only heard about it in this forum...you say it can be used with Kyma and a controller with motorized faders? I can use a controller with motorized faders to control Kyma parameters with MAX as a link between the two? This is where I get very confused.

Ok...Byron Bay...yep its as far east as one could go, however a very nice place and when you do go there you must go through the Blue Mountains..and of course not forgetting your portable audio recorder

posted 09 August 2007 06:51            

you can hear some of what I do with mine at http://www.syncsonics.com

Cheers

posted 09 August 2007 12:07            

Do you ever hear the amazing sounds of the native owls in the Blue Mountains?

thanks
Caleb

posted 10 August 2007 00:07            

The Motormix works ok most of the time, but it is an old piece of equipment, and it has been discontinued. I called CM Labs when I was trying to buy one and they told me that they would start shipping the Motormix2 the following week, but then Kurt told me that they told him the same thing several months before. And indeed, nothing ever came of it. There's still no Motormix2 anywhere, a year and a half later! They also said that it would cost about twice as much as before and be exactly the same, except that the faders would be touch sensitive, and that doesn't seem like a very good deal to me, especially considering that the Mackey costs half as much. In any case, you can't really take seriously a company that's been promising the motormix2 for a few years and doesn't deliver anything. I even read once on eBay that the motormix2 is only the normal motormix after a tune up from the shop. They basically clean it and rebuild it for you, and call it motormix2. In any case, the Motrmix was a good thing while it lasted, and if you have one that still works it's great for Kyma. But it definitely doesn't seem to be an option for the future, and there are much nicer boxes now in any case. The one thing I would miss about it would be the size, as some of the other boxes tend to be much bigger, at least the ones with LCDs.

As to what was wrong with mine, I really don't know. All the lights, faders and switches worked, and it even passed the self test with flying colors. But just when it was starting up and would normally start communicating Kyma (or protools) it would just hiccup and then do nothing. That happened with both mine and my friend's.

I was thinking that as soon as SSC releases the non-beta version of the AV/C firmware for the flame, which should be able to send midi, it should be possible to have two way communication with other controllers, for example with the Lemur through OSC and OSCulator. I'm not completely sure that this would be the case, but that's what I understand. Maybe SSC or Camille could share some light on this subject.

Ok, so I'll have to remember checking out the Blue Mountains when I go down under, and I'll definitely bring along my field recorder. And thanks for your comment Garth, it would be very interesting to meet if I make it to Sydney. I checked out some of the music on your site and it is very nice!

Are there any electroacoustic or contemporary music festivals in Australia? I really need to find myself some good excuse to go (besides the wildlife, surfing, seeing my sister, and meeting other kyma users)!

Cheers,

Hector

posted 13 August 2007 20:13            

I would imagine that the MotorMix2 is more than likely the original MotorMix without that problem and any other bugs the original had.

I hope that by the time I am financially ready to buy a good controller, I most certainly hope that there is something out there that will mirror the settings of Kyma with the motorized faders.

posted 13 August 2007 20:45            

That is the problem, the MotroMix2 has been advertised on their website for more than 2 years. Yet, if you search for it on google products or yahoo shopping you won't find anything at all. Sometimes you find it listed at some stores, but when you try to add it to the cart they tell you that it is out of stock. Hell, even their website doesn't have any pictures that show a "motormix2" (unless they chose to call it motormix2 but continue to write only motormix on the product itself, which would be a bit odd). I also think that if it was available the folks at SSC would be offering it on their website by now, as they used to. But as I said, even if it was available, at $2000 + I don't think it would be a good option, as that is what a Lemur costs (and there is simply no comparison), and it is almost twice as much as the mackie MCU, which is also USB and is generally considered the industy standard. But yes, I also hope that there will be other options to use with Kyma in the near future. I also think that it would be awesome if support for the Lemur and/or Dexter was built into Kyma.

Cheers,

Hector

posted 14 August 2007 00:37            

I have a Lemure in the uni lab, but have not started to test it with Kyma. It will not auto make an interface, which is one of the things I really liked about the Motormix - mane a variable and it came up on the Motormix. Having said that, the Lemure is really cool and has a great deal of potential to explore interfaceing options and approaches.

I have been using the Wacom Tablet a lot as it is flexible and makes a responsive performance interface. I am also using the WiiMote with the Numchuck a lot, and am now using 2 WiiMotes through OSCulator to Kyma - very sweet

I am interested in the Alphatrack as it has the features I liked on the MM, but is single fader and portable http://www.frontierdesign.com/Products/AlphaTrack

I already suggested to SSC that they look at building support into Kyma.

I also have access to a Continuum Fingureboard which is way cool - the timbre variation you can get with it makes may instruments including the physical models very musical in performance

Thats my 2c worth

Cheers

posted 14 August 2007 01:59            

I need a cup of tea....my head is techno spinning!

posted 18 August 2007 15:50            

On the other hand, I've been working with the Lemur and I really love it. Some of the objects like the multiball allow you to control object in very interesting ways, and to get some really cool results that you could never get otherwise.

The only reason I would care to still use a MotorMix is because the automatic mapping is really useful when trying things out. You can build amazing interfaces in the Lemur, but it takes some time to map them properly and all. For a performance instrument or composition it is well worth to spend the time designing your nice Lemur interface, but for trying things out quickly it is great to be able to have something like the MotorMix... or I should say something like the MotorMix THAT ACTUALLY WORKS!

Garth, did you ever have problems with your MotorMix before you got rid of it?

The AlphaTrack is nice, and I can imagine some situations where it would be useful. But the reason I don't find it to be a really suitable replacement for the MotorMix is that for me one of the main reasons to have a fader box is to be able to control several things at once by having multiple faders, which is exaclty what you can't do with the mouse. Having a physical fader on the AlphaTrack is still nicer than using the mouse, but you're still limited at any given time to the single fader and maybe one knob with the other hand.

I really wish there was an alernative to the MotorMix. The Mackie MCU is ugly as hell, and really big, but I still think it might be a really good option, especially because many other surfaces can work on MCU emulation mode, from the cheap Behringer to the Lemur itself (so on the Lemur you would probably ony need to build or import a generic MCU-like Lemur interface that you could use as an MCU, as some people do to control Logic or Live with the Lemur).

But for now I'll have to map faders by hand, or use the mouse to move them. And I guess I could use the motormix as a really expensive paper weight!

H

posted 19 August 2007 07:27            

No I had no problems with my MM. I did oftern feel it was not earthed properly and when plugged in the surface of my laptop and MM would have a sort of tickly current feel - not so good, but it always worked fine and I traveled and giged with it quite a bit.

You could try a Lemure - you can make multiple faders there, but the mapping is not automatice in the same way as MM

Cheers

posted 21 August 2007 05:40            

Actually, I might have answered my own question!!! There is currently a MM for sale on ebay, and the owner writes: -

"This motormix seems to have a minor fault. Actually it passes the self-test (it tests all the chips and everything if you plug the midi in-out together when you switch it on) perfectly every time, and it works perfectly for a while, and then after a while (either minutes or hours, depending on its emotion) it goes blank and loses communication. I wrote to Carl Malone about this (the inventor/designer of these things), and he can service it for US$175 + shipping, which should fix the problem. But if you are an electronics whiz, it might be a simple problem and you could fix it yourself."

posted 21 August 2007 10:53            

There would be two parts to this: One would be programming the graphic widgets to represent MM faders and buttons on the Lemur screen. The other part would be taking the MIDI output from Kyma and translating it to OSC for the Lemur updates. If someone wants to take a stab at this, we can supply you with the MotorMix MIDI protocol.

(I *would* suggest Camille Troillard's Osculator as the obvious place to add this code, but Cam's band Neïmo has exploded in popularity recently and they are busy touring and recording a new album. That's not a complaint, btw, more of a congratulations to Cam)

posted 22 August 2007 13:29            

Programming the graphic widgets in the Lemur to mirror the MotorMix would be no problem, I can do that easily.

As for the second part, I have some questions:

First, the Lemur can also receive midi through the JazzDeamon. It should be possible to simply send midi from the capy to a midi interface and rout it to the Lemur in this way. Then you can select how each widget should send and receive midi in the JazzEditor. Having the MotorMix protocol it should be possible to make it work this way, right?

Of course, it would be better to be able to do it through OSC. But if the midi has to be sent through the physical midi output of the capybara (as I understand is the case for the time being) that would cancel the speed benefits of using OSC over midi (though I would still always prefer to do it through OSC if possible). But also, if we could take the midi messages coming from Kyma and turn them to OSC then it should be possible to have two-way communication with any Lemur object, not just a motormix template (even if perhaps only the MoroMix template would get mapped automatically). And shouldn't this also be possible with just midi through the JazzDeamon?

I'm very glad to hear about Camille's band success, Congratulaions to him! I hope he still manages to find some time to continue developing OSCulator, as it is very useful program. It would be very nice if it could take midi and turn it into OSC like you suggest.

In the meantime, maybe somebody else here (some of the other Lemur users perhaps that would know more about OSC and midi than I do) would be interested in helping with this project. I can also see what I can do on my own, or with some help from somebody at the Institute of Sonology, but I won't be able to look into it until I come back from Denmark in September though.

Thanks agian for your help!

Cheers,

posted 23 August 2007 15:41            

If you would like to try setting up the Jazz Demon to respond to MM MIDI messages, please send us an email so we can discuss the protocol with you.

posted 24 August 2007 22:45            

Hey, I cannot find anything on jazzmutant website about this: Jazz Deamon. What is it and what does it do? you got a URL for me?

posted 27 August 2007 22:12            

Cheers

posted 28 August 2007 02:45            

OSCulator, as his name implies, reads OSC.
Actually, it can only read that! The Wiimote can be decoded because there is a hidden helper program that connects to the wiimote and converts its data into OSC. The Lemer sends raw OSC data that OSCulator reads as well. Any kind of OSC actually …

All the best,
Camille

posted 29 August 2007 02:50            

Don't worry at there is no problem running everything at once on the same computer. Mac OS X makes very clever optimizations re. network sockets and processes.

To know which port number you would like to use, there are two ways of doing this:

1. You want everything (Max, Wiimote) in a single, convenient patch. Then choose the default port number (or whichever you chose), that is, 8000.

2. You want to have your Wiimote and Max patches separated so you could just use one at a time. You could then choose 8000, the default port, for the Wiimote, and, 8001 for Max. To do this, simply create a new document (Command-N), and assign the new port number. That's all, you can use the two windows together and send data to Kyma. The new window is ready to receive OSC informations as long as the Capybara LED is turned blue.

Tell me if you manage to make it work.

posted 10 September 2007 00:35            

I curious - how did you make this work for you (ie. what Max objects did you use?)

I just had some luck with udpsend - bound it to a port that Oscalator is seeing, then sent it floats prepended by some arbitrary name, which I then sent to Kyma via Kyma cc. It seems to work. Are you doing something like that?

I couldn't figure out how to use the CNMAT OpenSoundControl object.

I'm glad this subject came up on the list - still having some trouble adjusting to not having a working flame object.

best,
Phil

quote:

---

Originally posted by garth paine:
yes Cam thats brilliant - works a treat - Ok so I don't need a MAX object anymore - can just use OSC with OSCUlator as the bridge - absolutely brilliant - Also I had not realised y ou could have several receiving ports (several documents) all sending to Kyma at once - thanks heaps :-)

[This message has been edited by garth paine (edited 03 September 2007).]

---

posted 14 September 2007 00:45            

Here is a small patch that send OSC with the Symbol 'lever' as the identifier

max v2;
#N vpatcher 219 44 819 444;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P newex 166 123 70 196617 prepend lever;
#P user hslider 166 102 15 57 128 1 0 0;
#P newex 150 207 88 196617 OpenSoundControl;
#P newex 150 187 28 196617 t b s;
#P newex 150 252 115 196617 udpsend localhost 8000;
#P objectname otudpwrite;
#P fasten 4 0 1 0 171 154 155 154;
#P connect 1 0 2 0;
#P connect 1 1 2 0;
#P connect 2 0 0 0;
#P connect 3 0 4 0;
#P pop;

it sends to port 8000, but I also tried it using 8001 and the Wii on 8000 and that all worked fine to. Of course you can send as many variables at once as you like - just prepernd an symbol as an identifier.