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Reverse Delay

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Author	Topic: Reverse Delay
Gareth Whittock Member	posted 28 August 2000 03:57 Hi everybody, I've been using Kyma for about a month now and I'm starting to build a toolbox of basic processing devices, (flanger, Phaser, reverse dealys etc) It's the reverse dealys that are stumping me. I have used memory writer to store sound and smaple player to retrieve it but in reverse order, this is ok but I'm experiencing clicks in the output. I'm guessing that its the start of the memory loop that's doing this. Is there another way of achieving reverse delay? Cheers, Gareth PS. This forum is very cloak and dagger - why? IP: Logged
dennis Member	posted 28 August 2000 13:28 Hi, Gareth! Dennis Leas here from the Looper's Delight list. I've got some questions/ideas about your reverser. Unfortunately, no solutions, just questions. Do you always hear a click? Do you hear a click with forward sounds also or only reverse? If you loop the sound with "SetLoop" do you hear the click looping too? What behavior does checking "Loop Fade" give? If you think it's the audio splice, have you tried using hot parameters for adjusting the start/stop points to see if that changes things? Sometimes I run the Sample output to a DiskRecorder so I can capture the waveform for diagnosis. IP: Logged
Gareth Whittock Member	posted 28 August 2000 14:28 Hi, Gareth! Dennis Leas here from the Looper's Delight list. I've got some questions/ideas about your reverser. Unfortunately, no solutions, just questions. Do you always hear a click? No there's the expected change of timbre every half second, (if that's how much I'm writing to the memory). whether there is a click seems to be a matter of chance but the click is always every half second when it does happen. Do you hear a click with forward sounds also or only reverse? No, just the straight sound. If you loop the sound with "SetLoop" do you hear the click looping too? Yes What behavior does checking "Loop Fade" give? It lessens the effect but doesn't eliminate it. If you think it's the audio splice, have you tried using hot parameters for adjusting the start/stop points to see if that changes things? I'll have to go back to the manual for that Dennis. I've not used them yet. Sometimes I run the Sample output to a DiskRecorder so I can capture the waveform for diagnosis. Good idea. I'll check out the hot parameters idea. My theory is that the loop crossover is too steep/fast. It might be useful in that case to be able to adjust it. Thanks for your help Dennis. All the best, Gareth IP: Logged
SSC Administrator	posted 29 August 2000 09:09 Hi Gareth, If you are doing a realtime delay reversal, the read pointer and the write pointer are going to cross once halfway through each loop (because you are writing into the memory at the same time as you are reading out of it in reverse). One solution is to use a kind of double-bump shape envelope that is zero right in the center (to hide the crossover point). To fill in the gaps introduced by the funny envelope, add another enveloped signal that is delayed by one quarter of the loop time. http://www.SymbolicSound.com/KymaSounds/liveReverseDelay.kym (click and hold mouse button on link and select "download link to disk". Mac users remember to use Import from the File menu on the Mac before opening file in Kyma) This is an example of a realtime local reverser, a reverser-reverb-reverser (to undo the first reverse), and a reverser-delay-reverser. I put GenericSources in so you can switch it from the sample input to a live input to try it with a microphone. c & k [This message has been edited by SSC (edited 29 August 2000).] [This message has been edited by SSC (edited 29 August 2000).] IP: Logged
Gareth Whittock Member	posted 30 August 2000 02:06 Hust tried to run the reverse Sound and got: Kyma encountered this unexpected condition: Key not found: 13634 This may have occurred due to a problem in one of your Sounds. The following information is provided to help you track down the problem. If you continue to get this message after having made sure there are no problems in your Sound, please contact Symbolic Sound customer support for assistance. ---------------------------------------------- a BinaryStorageDictionary (class BinaryStorageDictionary) received message #at: sent from a KymaBinaryStorage (class KymaBinaryStorage) received message #next sent from BlockClosure (class BlockClosure class) received message #readBinaryFrom:tag: sent from a KymaBinaryStorage (class KymaBinaryStorage) received message #next sent from Association (class Association class) received message #readBinaryFrom:tag: sent from a KymaBinaryStorage (class KymaBinaryStorage) received message #next sent from FastIdentityDictionary (class FastIdentityDictionary class) received message #readBinaryFrom:tag: sent from a KymaBinaryStorage (class KymaBinaryStorage) received message #next sent from KymaLook (class KymaLook class) received message #readBinaryFrom:tag: sent from a KymaBinaryStorage (class KymaBinaryStorage) received message #next sent from KymaLook (class KymaLook class) received message #readBinaryFrom:tag: sent from a KymaBinaryStorage (class KymaBinaryStorage) received message #next sent from KymaLook (class KymaLook class) received message #readBinaryFrom:tag: sent from a KymaBinaryStorage (class KymaBinaryStorage) received message #next sent from SoundVCSLayout (class SoundVCSLayout class) received message #readBinaryFrom:tag: sent from. Any ideas? Gareth IP: Logged
SSC Administrator	posted 30 August 2000 09:07 >Any ideas? >Gareth Two thoughts: 1. Did your browser download it as a binary? (It should be a binary, not text) Which browser are you using? Can you set the helper application to download unknowns (or .kym) as binary. 2. Are you using Kyma 5.06? -Carla IP: Logged
Bill Meadows Member	posted 30 August 2000 11:50 I downloaded the examples this morning and they worked just fine (there are 3 of them). They will provide some good starting points for some new effects. It always amazes me to see how Kurt and Carla program - I never think of doing things the way they do. Bill IP: Logged
Gareth Whittock Member	posted 31 August 2000 02:32 [B]I downloaded the examples this morning and they worked just fine (there are 3 of them). Do you use a mac? I still can't get it to run on my PC. I have the latest version of Kyma and I'm told my computer downloads as binaries anyway, (whatever that means - I'm not a computer buff). I'd really like to try this. How frustrating. BTW how do you tell which version of Kyma you're using? Gareth IP: Logged
John Dunn Member	posted 31 August 2000 06:07 I use a PC, and the files downloaded just fine with the standard Internet Explorer (IE5.5). I just double clicked on the url given above, made sure that "Save this file to disk" was selected (usually the default), and downloaded it into the Kyma directory where some other .kym files lived. The three examples worked great! No errors and no problems. ...and once again I am reminded why I invested in Kyma in the first place. There is no sound creation system that even comes close in the amazing tricks Kyma can play. Especially when its creators are the trick meisters. IP: Logged
YPug Member	posted 31 August 2000 14:32 Ditto!!! quote: Originally posted by John Dunn: ...and once again I am reminded why I invested in Kyma in the first place. There is no sound creation system that even comes close in the amazing tricks Kyma can play. Especially when its creators are the trick meisters. IP: Logged

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