posted 15 June 2013 11:22            

I do not have it chosen as my mac audio interface, but when I open its control panel, and turn up the audio outputs, I can hear the audio coming through it just fine, and the firewire connection seems totally stable.

When I connect to the pacarana, most of the time it makes a connection, but I keep on getting 'out of real time' messages, and I can hear the unit clicking, which it seems to do when making/breaking a firewire connection. the audio goes out when this happens, and occasionally kyma crashes. If (after a couple of hours of trial and error) I do manage to establish a stable connection, it lasts for the remainder of the session, but I've found no reliable way to establish this, and the next session will revert.

Apparently, early on after the release of mountain lion, there were issues with some software and the orpheus (just found through random internet searching) - but I don't see anything recent.

posted 15 June 2013 12:25            

Connecting to the pacarana directly seems to more reliably make a stable connection to the interface IF I can establish one, but after the first successful session, both the mac and the pacarana wouldn't even see the interface.

It looks like it works if, between every session, I unplug the orpheus (simply putting in safe mode doesn't work), and reboot the computer.

This is based simply on 2 successful short sessions in a row (most I've had thus far).

posted 15 June 2013 15:55            

What I need to remember NOT to do, is to choose to turn off the pacarana when I quit Kyma. If I don't do that, even if I put the orpheus on standby, the next connection seems to work just fine.

posted 16 June 2013 05:30            

quote:

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Originally posted by droolmaster0:
ok. I think I have found the best solution. This allows me to keep my computer on, and not have to unplug the interface between sessions.

What I need to remember NOT to do, is to choose to turn off the pacarana when I quit Kyma. If I don't do that, even if I put the orpheus on standby, the next connection seems to work just fine.

Damn fine sounding interface, if I may say so. That's kind of been lost in all of the hours of troubleshooting.

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The Paca(rana)'s FW sound should not have any drivers or other administrative software (like control panels) installed on your computer. If you do then this will almost certainly provide the OS with the necessary ingredients for it to attempt to connect to the soundcard. It will do this whenever it boots, and probably any time there is some type of FW "event" that triggers the interrogation process.

If you have the drivers/support software installed then its a race between the computer and the Paca(rana) for who gets control of the soundcard. Whichever "claims" it first will own it until it relinquishes it. This is why you can get it to work if you power the Paca(rana) before the computer.

Unfortunately there is no way that I am aware of to isolate the soundcard from the computer while it is also connected to the Paca(rana). The Paca(rana) uses FW for communicating with the host computer, and this FW connection is on the same FW bus and the soundcard. So if the Paca(rana) is connected to the computer so will the soundcard.

The typical approach to solving this is to not install any of the soundcard's support software on the computer. In a perfect world the soundcard's support software would include an enable/disable function that could be used to keep the computer from claiming it. Unfortunately in my experience that it rare.

The solution we use (as do others) is to keep the soundcard drivers off the computer. If you sometimes need to access the soundcard from the computer (for example to do configuration) then create a second boot drive or partition that has the drivers installed and boot with that whenever you need to control the soundcard from the computer. Of course when you do that the Paca(rana) will need to be powered off. We actually have an old MacBook Pro set up with the FW soundcard drivers that we connect (with the other computer and Paca(rana) off) when we need to do that sort of thing.

Doug

posted 16 June 2013 12:13            

quote:

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Originally posted by droolmaster0:
Yes, I know that this is true in most cases, except that there are some exceptions...

If you were to look the specific instructions that are posted for this interface, you'll see that one needs to install the software on the mac first, and that the mac needs to see it. What one is instructed NOT to do is to select the orpheus in the Audio Midi setup as being used by the mac.

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Your symptoms suggest though that your computer is still attempting to "claim" the soundcard. Audio MIDI setup is only a UI for assigning a CoreAudio I/O device to OSX's system sounds, and the default audio I/O that applications *may* choose to use. Many audio applications, especially DAWs, communicate directly with CoreAudio to establish their audio I/O paths; Audio Midi Setup is not even in the picture in this case. So configuring Audio MIDI Setup is not a guarantee that some other software will not attempt to grab the soundcard. It might even be a side effect of how that application queries what audio I/O is available.

Anyway unless you are OK with your very specific procedural work around you might want to investigate further why your Mac is taking ownership of the soundcard. Maybe its just a limitation of that soundcard's design. Have you tried using it with the Pacarana without having the drivers installed? That is a sure-fire way to make sure your Mac does not take control of it.

posted 16 June 2013 18:58            

So, from this, and from Kurt's instructions (and my email exchange with him yesterday), I infer that the application, if not running, means that the mac just simply sees the Orpheus, and that there are no drivers to uninstall anyway. There is certainly no uninstall program, and not mention of where these files might be, no mention of them or drivers in Kurt's instructions, etc.

Kurt did remind me that another program might be trying to grab the interface (this happens, again, only when I connect it directly to the mac), but the only program that I can see doing this is the software for my metric halo interface. But why would it be trying to grab the orpheus? In any case - to be complete, I should probably make sure I test this without this program running - however this wouldn't be a solution for me, because I much prefer to keep it running.

posted 17 June 2013 05:47            

quote:

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Originally posted by droolmaster0:
oh yeah - forgot to include the following. I found it again in the manual:
they talk about the application:
"It is not necessary to run the Orpheus Control Panel applet for applications to be able to use Orpheus; however the applet is needed if any but the most basic control of Orpheus' functions is required.....The same is true in Mac systems, except that no driver is installed because OS X is able to operate Orpheus directly to obtain Core Audio functionality."

So, from this, and from Kurt's instructions (and my email exchange with him yesterday), I infer that the application, if not running, means that the mac just simply sees the Orpheus, and that there are no drivers to uninstall anyway. There is certainly no uninstall program, and not mention of where these files might be, no mention of them or drivers in Kurt's instructions, etc.

Kurt did remind me that another program might be trying to grab the interface (this happens, again, only when I connect it directly to the mac), but the only program that I can see doing this is the software for my metric halo interface. But why would it be trying to grab the orpheus? In any case - to be complete, I should probably make sure I test this without this program running - however this wouldn't be a solution for me, because I much prefer to keep it running.

So, unless Kurt finds something in the log, I have likely found my best solution.

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The extra detail about "no driver" provides a hint, I think, what the issue is. The Orpheus appears to be compatible with OSX's native FireWire audio driver. If so then yes there probably isn't much you can do other than making sure no other software may be trying to access the soundcard.

If you have the Orpheus connected one one port of the Pacarana, and the Mac on the other, then the Pacarana will not pass FireWire to the Orpheus when it is unpowered. This, as you noted, prevents the Mac from taking control of it. However there is still a narrow window of opportunity for the Mac to grab it each time the Pacarana is reset, including when it is first powered up. I believe you have already experienced this in your troubleshooting.

So you may well be right about this being "the way it is". The key is whether it is OSX grabbing the soundcard on its own (and thus there is little you can do about it since the Orpheus uses the native driver), or if there is still some software application, or background utility, doing the deed. Speaking of which something like Jack could be responsible for this behavior.

Doug