posted 05 February 2004 10:39            

I have been thinking about creating systems in kyma to feedback midi event data. Maybe using control signal or kyma sequencer data to an external synths midi inputs, wich are also output back into kyma, modified and then combined or replacing the original midi signal from kyma.

Does anyone have any ideas or experience to share about this sort of system?

posted 05 February 2004 22:45            

If you are only going to manipulate MIDI, then you don't need the more expensive MAX/MSP.

MAX has *many* MIDI-specific processing blocks, a complete set of GUI widgets, and plenty of third party support. It has been around for 20 years, so it is very stable.

posted 06 February 2004 11:15            

Look, for example, in the Kyma Sound Library at Timecode & MIDI / output MIDI.kym . Some of these examples suggest ways in which you could convert MIDI controllers into audio signals, create audio feedback loops, and convert the audio input back to MIDI controllers (which you could then output to external MIDI devices which could send audio back into Kyma which could convert back to audio input to those external devices, etc).

I propose that we all brainstorm on some clever solutions and thoughts related to YerbaAdam's idea. Not only will this have the welcome side-effect of increasing the database of shared Sounds for all Kyma users, but his question is deeper than just asking how to transpose or delay MIDI events. It forces us to re-examine the artificial separation between control signals and audio signals and to think creatively about recursion, feedback and control systems. His question is an invitation to all of us to explore areas of Kyma that we might not have known about (or may not have visited recently).

[This message has been edited by SSC (edited 06 February 2004).]

posted 07 February 2004 10:33            

quote:

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Originally posted by SSC:
... but his question is deeper than just asking how to transpose or delay MIDI events.

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Regardless of what you do, you ultimately have to create a valid MIDI message, so anything you do to the message can ultimately be reduced to some combination of translation, transposition, and delay.

Back in the late 80's I was making incredible textures of sounds using MIDI feedback between hardware arpeggiators and MAX programs.

posted 13 February 2004 10:59            

I've been posting some suggestions on this forum last year and on tweaky too http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Wish/NewSounds#MIDI_Notes_Recording

... with no feedback so far.

I think this would open up a complete new world of interactive sounds using Kyma, like for instance : interactive midi effects (ex one recorder feeds several players running at different speeds, quantize settings and transposition ...) or multiple cells sequencer (ex 8 independant sequencers, recording and playing, real-time recorded midi sequences at various loop lengths and quantize settings or mixing notes and controller data...) ... and many more.

I'd really appreciate some feedback from SSC if this is something they would consider in their developments.

If that's not the case, if I would have to invest (money and hard learning time) in Max to have this kind of features. Obviously, the integration in Kyma would be 100 times better and more powerful than a Kyma/Max combination

posted 13 February 2004 13:28            

I remember our discussion about MIDI recording/manipulation after the mini-workshop at CCMIX. Yes, we are interested in expanding those aspects of Kyma.

Apologies to all for not always responding verbally to suggestions on the forum or tweaky. A lack of response should *not* be interpreted as a negative response! It could mean that we are thinking about it or that we have it on our (long) list of future desirable features and directions. Sometimes we are in the processing of trying to figure out a way to incorporate a large number of suggestions into one meta-level change that could accomplish all of them at once.

posted 13 February 2004 13:30            

Check out the Kyma X Revealed chapters on CapyTalk. There is a description of how to do Boolean or logic operations using multiplication (*) for AND, addition (+) for OR, 1 for TRUE and 0 for FALSE.